Since we’ve removed the Live Chat button from our menu, I wanted to make an announcement about the chat and future of the chat:

We took down chat because there were a couple of flaws with our chat system that we have, up until this point, been ignoring.

For a while, chat has been generating a stream of headaches because incidents occur in chat where either someone goes a little too far with what they say, users sensitive to certain subjects are having strong reactions where normally you wouldn’t expect it, or users are simply clashing because they are different personality types.  These occurrences are not unexpected in a chat where you have a diverse opinions, but we’ve basically put ourselves into a position where people expect us to be responsible for everything anyone says, while allowing people to talk freely 24/7.  This is a problem that is not going to be solved by throwing more mods into the mix.  Something that might hurt or be offensive to one user may not be to another—identifying problems can be hard on the spot without proper communication between mods and users.  It doesn’t matter how many mods you have if there is a lack of communication.

In addition, there is a perceived rift between users who use the chat and who do not use the chat.  Some users outside of chat feel like chat regulars have insider information because staff hangs out in chat, while those outside of chat are left in the dark.  Some users don’t feel comfortable entering chat because they are introverted, or just uncomfortable with the fact that chat is not exactly family friendly.  This is understandable, but also upsetting to them because some of these users may feel like they are missing out on “chat privileges” that those who go into chat have.

So we have two main issues we’d need to fix:  we’d like to figure out how to properly deal with these incidents and improve communication when incidents occur so it doesn’t escalate into something that really hurts our members, and we’d like to make chat have more “niches” so that more people can utilize it, whether to be able to talk with their MC friendgroup or to stop and have an informal chat with the staff.  Chat is great most of the time, but I am pretty unhappy with these two flaws and think that continuing to overlook them was just going to get messier as time went on.

We haven’t really figured out a decent solution to any of this, just that it’s enough of a problem that it was worth taking down chat to really put some thought into it. A specific incident or person is not why we took chat down; this has been an on-going trend that has been leeching time away from site-building activities.  A number of you were hurt by the way in which we took down chat which was without any notice, and I apologize for that.  We did put thought into how to do it, but overlooked some major things, like how it would make /you/ feel when the place you went to talk to your friends every day was suddenly gone.  I try to do my best by all of you because I do care, but I am fallible, and I know now that there were better ways to handle the situation.

One of the things that made me really sad about this situation (before/during/after) was being linked to offsite rants about how people got hurt and how we don’t care.  Glitch and I do try hard to make ourselves accessible so that you feel like you can come to us with concerns.  Our mods also try to be accessible so that you can echo a mod for help, advice, or intervention with tense situations.  We can’t fix situations we don’t know about, and we can’t address issues when we don’t have specifics.  Learning of things we wish we could have fixed in this manner is really disheartening, and I ask all of you to come to us with concerns rather than writing something harsh and vague on some other website.  In the future, I won’t be following links to offsite comments because I think they do more harm than good.

I think, in the end, we will need to do a complete recode and restructure of chat in order to make it more usable to all of you.  This is very time-intensive for glitch and may not even solve the issues.  We’re willing to listen to your ideas and take them into account as we reflect on chat (I’d love to hear some ideas from people who don’t use chat on how to make it friendlier to you).  We’d like to take a break from chat management to really think about how we want chat to work and what would be necessary in order to re-introduce it.

on an MMO site I used to go on, I really enjoyed their chat.

They had different sections basically, one where we talked about Disney (it was a disney site), and one where it was kinda free reign. Staff had their own private group that they could access.

I kinda like that idea for this chat, if we could do it? Mycena Discussions, and then Real-World stuff, and maybe external games for people who like to fill the chat with FR stuff x3

And another key thing the MMO site had: no one could go into the chat box unless a moderator/some kind of staff was in there, so everything was monitored. That might be a little bit too much to do, though, since there’s so few staff on the site.

But the idea of Mod’s speaking up would be key. Because I know a lot of the times where situations got a little sticky in the chat box, a lot of staff just sat there, whether they were just clicked off the tab or not.

But since we can’t guarantee that someone will step in, I think there needs to be set rules for the chat posted where someone can see them easily. From there, you should ask the people on the site to step up and report behavior that’s not acceptable for the chat.

As for the riff, perhaps if the Tumblr or other social media was updated a little more often, it might help bridge that gap. I know some people are a little socially awkward on here, so providing the “inside” info that’s given on the chat there, it makes it so no one is feeling quite left out.

Myla, Thanks so much for explaining the reasoning behind the chat removal. I had logged on today and got confused when I hadn’t seen it there. I’m sad to hear that you and Glitch (and I’m sure the other staff) are recieving negative criticism.  You guys are awesome and definitely don’t deserve any negative responses. Thanks for all you do on Mycena and how well you are trying to make sure everyone is comfortable here! That’s what I love about this site. Everyone can be friends with everyone. Looking forward to the day when chat returns :)

I really like the idea of having separate tabs that pertain to different topics. Like Khaleesi was saying with one for FR or offsite things, one for Mycena in general, etc. Maybe a mod doesn’t have to be in the chat ALL the time? Perhaps there could be a ‘3 strikes you’re out’ sort of system, or one where a person could be kicked out of the chatroom for a specific amount of time (the rest of the day, 24 hours or something) if the majority of other users in the chat were uncomfortable? Or be able to capture specific places in the chat text where they were offended and put it into the ‘staff’ tab? o:

We love you guys, so cheer up too. We know you try your hardest for us, and you’ve never slowed down in that aspect. You care about us deeply, whether it be making the chat better, hiring more staff, or just asking the userbase for their general opinion of how to make the site better rather frequently (like creating the rules for instance) and I think we don’t appreciate all of that effort nearly enough. Thank you <3

I haven’t been active in terms of chatting or on the forums on Mycena as of late— I’ve been more of a lurker.

As much as I’ve enjoyed Mycena Cave, I don’t always feel like I have a group of friends on here that I can openly talk with.  I’m not saying the community is exclusive or tries to leave people out— it’s unintentional.  Many of these users have been friends with each other from Digis (and that’s a can of worms that I’d rather not bring up as a sore spot) and earlier than that in some cases.

I love the idea of the chat room and the forums are nice, but I think that having a very active chatroom and a somewhat active forum(?) can alienate shyer users.  Granted, that’s my choice to not be active on the forums, but I do feel like if a lot of users are on chat, people are going to feel left out.

At this point, I think the best thing to do is to have a chatbox mod or two if possible.

Edit:  Yes, and different chatrooms would be a good idea, too.

Honestly, I would prefer the chat just stay down. Why do we need a live chat room on a largely forum based site? I think instead of rebuilding the chat, there should be more incentive to use our forums. Why not incorporate like, guilds or something, where we can cultivate our own little communities that would be more easily accessable? I feel like a live chat in any form is going to encourage a divide between users.

Going to chime in with a second to Mouse. Having run a (significantly smaller, admittedly) group elsewhere and having a live chat feature, no matter what steps we took, there was inevitably always a huge divide between ‘the chat group’ and ‘the not in chat group.’ I think it CAN be managed properly and be something fun, but imo it’s just not something necessary and I think the bad outweighs the good here. Besides, users can (and have) always make private unofficial chats. Less stress on staff & moderation.

 

... also guilds are the single greatest idea in any universe. Guilds guilds guilds guilds guilds.

It really depends on how thoroughly you want it policed. If it’s going to have chat rules similar to the forums, and you want them enforced, you can’t have many rooms at all unless you want to quintuple your moderating staff. Every full-rules chatroom without mods constantly inside will cause drama, as the offensive clash with the sensitive - frequently without intent.

I personally like the idea of [M] room(s). In there, anything short of illegal activity or direct threats/insults/bullying to users is ignored - if users go in there, they do so knowing that it’s a room that allows people to say potentially offensive things. You could exclude sex stuff/make a PG-13 rule too, depending on what you’re okay with.

A solution for the non-mature rooms would be to only have them open for business when a mod is around to watch them. Display a “Shh, the mods are sleeping!” when a watchful eye is not available. Perhaps open up places for a few mods from other timezones, if there are interested and reliable users available.

I agree with Mouse! ;v;/
I am an introverted user. Being in live chats make me feel as though I am in the limelight and not in the good way. I wish there was more focus on the forums rather than a chatroom. I guess a chatroom attached to the site is cool but some people can make off-site chats so things should be… OK? I suppose? D:

I’ve met a super sweet person in the chat and made some acquaintances. But I talked easier with a certain lovely better when… She and I were out of the chat and talking via Echo/Skype so… Yeah. I still give myself little pats on the back for at least trying at the chat. I’m better at one-on-one conversations. Group forum-stuff is OK as long as I can take time to reply. And, honestly… That’s why I like the forums. I’m introverted and need to get up and leave or I space out. It’s embarrassing having that happen in a live chat.

If guilds/hangouts are made: I will be so happy! I was tempted on asking if we could have a hangout thread (because I’d totally make one) but I was too scared to ask and felt like i’d be a burden or something… ^^;

Also… I’d like to thank you for opening discussions on this subject! And i’m terribly sorry to hear about the nasty things that had been said. :( You all try your best and try to listen to users on site! You’re doing it now, aren’t you? Plus that has been shown to me in a previous/private situation recently… So I know you all try to help us out and it’s really appreciated! No one is allowed to say that you aren’t trying or giving it your all. <3

i’m of the same mind with users who don’t feel as though the site needs a chat, for the same reasons already mentioned. there are other unofficial chats already popping up and they don’t sound any different from the site chat, just less pressure on staff to keep them regulated. and users will not feel like they are being left out if it isn’t directly tied to the site/leaving the impression that only those who can handle a live chat get to talk to the staff personally.

i think it was originally meant to be like…a place to hang out with the admins or whomever in a casual setting, but it would be cool if the forums could be that way. like…if it’s not too time consuming, i would love to see staff members opening up on the forums a bit more. i know you guys are busy but you seem like cool people and well…i’ve known about most of you since digis, yet i feel like i don’t know you very well.

well, maybe chat users don’t know any better than others do, but maybe that’s part of the feeling left out thing. i dunno…the closest i felt to staff was when there was that one big echo asking for feedback from self-identified lurkers, or really any of the threads where things were opened up for feedback. i felt as though we were talking to each other directly, listening to each other and stuff.
fjhfgh idk how to words rn ;;

basically…the chat was a cool idea, but maybe not something that is feasible right now.

I just want to chime in that as an introverted user myself, I find posting in forums really really difficult if it isn’t something RP based. I just get super worried over the fact that the entire site can see my post, and fret over what everyone might be thinking while reading it.
Using chat on the other hand was super easy for me. I knew who was all viewing what I said, and short little things are easier to say than big long bits of text. Without chat (or a way to chat) I don’t think I’d make any friends on here, or talk with anyone. Most of my current friends I met initially through the digis chat. If it hadn’t been for that.. I’d be pretty lonely right now.

I guess what I’m saying is that that street goes two ways. Some people find forums easy and chat daunting, and some people find it the other way around. There’s nothing wrong with either. And orz this is all really hard for me so I’m going to just hit post before I change my mind.

edit/ a point brought up to me by a friend - not everyone can use AIM or IRC, so that isn’t the best thing either. Accessibility is a big issue here too.

As a side note, if you don’t feel comfortable posting your thoughts directly onto the forum but would like your opinion to be heard, you can message any of the staff via echo and we will pass it along to the rest of the staff. <3

I enjoyed using chat for the fact that it was live and if I was feeling down or feeling the need to just talk to people or sit and lurk and watch people, I could drop by and do that.

I can understand if the chat ends up not coming back at all, though I will definitely be pretty bummed if it isn’t. It won’t make me go looking for new unofficial chats to join or be more active in the forums, though and I’ll probably just become a major lurker.

I’m sorry I have no real input on what could be done to fix the issue.

Trying to keep this super-brief and to the point… I’m throwing my lot in with the users who miss the chat system. (The drop noise! How I miss it! Q.Q)

IRL I’m pretty overly introverted, I never leave the house if I can help it, avoid phone calls, text messages, or generally dealing with people in any sense of “personal contact”... Chat systems have been my only way around that, as I can delude myself into thinking people online are just really fun AI when I get super anti-social. (Seriously. Honest-to-god.)

Plus the stigma and paranoia of “Anything posted on the internet is on the internet FOREVER.”. This IS true of forum posts, and I cringe at and hate that. (I don’t even like making THIS post, but felt it too important not to explain why I missed it.) Chat avoids this problem, while still allowing other users to take accountability for each other in the absence of a mod, of if the mod is too distracted, or doesn’t understand an altercation taking place. The USERS can highlight, Ctrl+C, then Ctrl+V the section of dispute into a echo and send it to a mod and explain why it was a problem… It’s not too hard, and has been working since the 90’s. And works perfectly fine for huge chat systems even now. (Though huge chat systems having ignore features or secondary channels to separate differing opinion users into ‘cliques’ DOES help that, too! To that end, I LOVE Jingles idea of separate “rooms”. <3)

(Anyone here remember BBS’s, MIRC, ICQ, or the old days of Yahoo!Chat? I do!)

And those that don’t feel comfortable with chat systems can be perfectly fine not using them…

And yeah, what Kiwi said “short little things are easier to say than big long bits of text”... And forum-posts have that stigma that they HAVE to be more than a few short things, even if it’s not true, a post less than a few sentences feels… Silly. Like it’s breaking some ‘rule’.

I think for the most, chat ON Mycena was just… Because mods SOMETIMES popped in, everyone assumed they were somehow ‘responsible’ for “Everything” and forgot that, no, even if it WAS “moderated”, one person doesn’t speak for the whole, and not everyone has the same opinions/thoughts/understanding of things. Everyone reads different things into a series of events, or typed words, and sometimes that gets scary or dizzying. Context is hard. Not being sarcastic! It is painfully difficult online! There’s no inflection or tone to “know” if someone is joking, teasing, or what emotion is behind their words, often there’s no point of time reference either. (Tacky jokes get lost in translation a lot via text, especially if someone logs in in the middle of it.) ... In the end, the only way chats work, big or small, is for everyone participating to be vigilant about self-moderation, and don’t be afraid to speak up! It doesn’t take a mod to defuse a situation! <3 (I’ve moderated chat channels a lot in my years, and actually resolved MORE conflicts or issues in chats where I was NOT a mod and just took the initiative to speak up. <3)

And if a channel just gets too uncomfortable, copy the text, close the window and take a break… Likely when you go back, everything will be peachy again! Someone was probably just having a tussle that they sorted out, or might have been having a conversation about a delicate subject in a serious and thoughtful manner, or maybe someone just wanted to rant a little to vent some steam so as not to step on toes in an irreversible way that couldn’t be repaired. Chat systems can get to be a pretty emotional place sometimes, because there’s the comfort of talking to real people in live time, but none of the reality of talking face-to-face.

Edit: Random bold/italic for emphasis.

I kind of like Jingles’ idea for “rooms”, if it gets put back in. Because Mycena is so diverse with so many different sensitivities and “type” it’s nearly impossible to not offend someone over even something so simple as a favorite fictional character or music genre preference.

I loved the chat as I find it easier to talk to people in real time instead of waiting around for hours on a forum response that may or may not happen. To the opposite I also hated it because when you are typing in chat it’s easy to fall into a habit of sending a message without thinking about it or proofreading, which can lead to unintentional insult and offense. But we already have that in the forums as well, even with people being able to think over a response before submitting it, so it’s kind of a 50/50 thing. An ignore feature (even just a temporary one, say “ignore this user for 2 hours”) for the chat would help prevent escalating conflicts if members can’t self-moderate.

If the chat stays down it would be incentive for people to post on the forums more, and if it gets put back up then the people who use it will keep using it and the people who don’t will still have echo and the forums. I can understand not wanting to seem “cliquish”, but at the same time you can’t please everyone nor can you force people to interact if they don’t want to in any medium.

As an aside, I don’t get why people would be upset about what goes on in chat if they didn’t use it despite it being accessible. Even just lurking without typing anything was an option if you really wanted to keep tabs on what’s going on in there (and I’ve done that quite often even on days I didn’t feel like “talking”. I have social anxiety disorder on top of bipolar disorder, so being so talkative lately is really fricken weird for me).

It was sad to see chat removed, but I do understand that it must be hard juggling the issues it has created.

I personally like both forums and chat rooms, but slightly prefer forum conversation due to the fact I can edit my typos. Also, since it takes longer to create a post and submit it, generally I feel I can read what everyone posts quick enough and digest it before posting my input. Chat, however, is convenient during events because if I post too much, I feel like I’m spamming the forums and doing something wrong. Also, I’m particularly fond that it’s incredibly accessible to anyone who wants to join in that has an account here, instead of going to a different site/using a separate program. I don’t like having many things up at the same time, and a tab in chat on the site is a nice thing to have. If anything,  it would be nice to see chat up during site events when there is a lot of activity and have it as a seasonal feature.

I do understand the side of not particularly liking the chat. I tend to only pop in on occasion or when I have finished all my tasks for that particular day. There are just some days that hanging out with a group of people in real time doesn’t appeal to me. Also, there are times I say things and no one responds or my comment is completely ignored, but I take it in stride because more often than not, it isn’t intentional. But just because I don’t like it sometimes, I don’t feel it shouldn’t be there.

People enjoy certain features more than others. With chat, I can’t really think of a certain instance that insider information was given. If there was a question asked there it was not all that important and anyone could ask the staff via Echo. For instance, I asked about stats on the Summer Event, which I was given, but it was posted shortly after on the forums. I also personally don’t feel any different between users that are strictly on the chat or strictly on the forums — I suppose I personally talk to anyone on any medium. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I personally do not feel a us versus them mentality, and since I know there are people who are uncomfortable with chat, I don’t expect them to put themselves in a situation they don’t want to be in. But since staff is accessible occasionally in chat and echo, and they make sure all news is posted and we are all kept in the loop, there shouldn’t be too much of a problem here. I don’t want anyone to feel left out, but there should be an understanding not everyone will enjoy the same things.

As for the point about moderation, there was a instance I was in the chat when it did get heated. But as a member realizing I am stepping into the chat at my own risk and since we are granted and encouraged free speech of most type, unsavory subjects may arise. I don’t expect a moderator to directly defuse every situation. I was actually about to walk away from the incident I witnessed, but thankfully there was staff intervention, and it was more of less convenience. Everyone agreed to cool down and that was that. The only thing I would suggest is that if the chat does make an appearance again, there should be chat specific moderators for people who need this reassurance. That way there is less stress on the forum moderators to be there constantly.

Case in point, I respect either decision that is made with the chat. There are pros and cons to both perceived sides. I believe it’s a great feature to have on the site as a user and incredibly convenient and another way to meet and make more friends… but if it creates too many issues that it takes too much away from other potential work on the site that it’s overbearing to the level of creating an immense roadblock, it may need to be removed.

Anyone who knows me knows I’m not a big fan of chat. I never have been. I had issues with it back on Digis and assumed something similar would occur here. And I just… didn’t want to see that kind of atmosphere cultivated in our new space that was supposed to be a “clean slate”, if you will. Furthermore, I just… never saw the point when MC is such a forums-intensive site/game. Add in a heaping of anxiety, general shyness, and an introverted personality and well.. yeah. It’s just not something that ever meshed with me. And I have felt left out by not utilizing chat, especially since it often seemed to be pushed by staff for awhile there? Perhaps I did let a lot of past preconceptions color my view of chat (because people DID get special perks for being in Digis chat, etc), but… I don’t know. I haven’t felt that so much lately since stuff like the official tumblr blog have been more up to date, etc, but… I definitely did before.

I mean, I was kinda bummed when it was taken away without so much as an announcement.. but that’s mostly just because at first it felt like something that was being swept under the rug. And there was just so much negativity flying around it got.. really confusing. I’m glad you’ve since rectified that and made an official announcement/discussion about this. Thank you! It really is appreciated.

And.. I hope I’m not coming across as hating on anyone who used and enjoyed chat.. That’s not my intent. I just… don’t see the point for an official on-site chat?  If people want to make chat groups with their friends from MC on aim or irc or what-have-you then go for it. Like others have said it seems the best alternative as it doesn’t tax the staff or “further the divide” and such. Also, for accessibility issues: there’s tons of browser-based chat systems. AIM is even usable via browser and so is irc, yeah? There’s also google hangouts and xat, if that’s still a thing. With a little digging I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find an alternative…

I really, really prefer the idea of guilds/hangouts/something of that nature. I think it would be the best solution? It would be more accessible to admin/mod intervention (since I’m guessing the chat didn’t have a chat log?) and like-minded people could come together and have either more “lengthy, forum style conversations” or “short chat style conversations”. Mmm.. but if chat does come back I wouldn’t if it was a “seasonal” thing like Lycan suggested. Something just up for events. I don’t know how intensive that would be coding-wise, though. But I think that would feel a lot less… clique-ish and more open? Because then it would just be a bunch of people really pumped up about an event, y’know? Common ground.

I think part of the problem though no matter what is.. well. I sometimes feel the moderators aren’t active enough? I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, but. Well, I’ve witnessed several situations on the forums before where a mod probably should have stepped in and they just.. didn’t. And several were online at the time. A friend even notified a mod in one such instance and was basically told not to worry about it right now if it gets worse they’ll do something, but it wasn’t until like a week later that anything was ever done.

Also… I… feel like a lot of people are acting like chat getting out of hand was just a few instances that were only offensive to some people. Whereas, from what I’ve gathered, subjects like rape and murder were joked about (and apparently people said they identified with rapists..?) which is NOT okay under any circumstance. I… don’t know what to say to that, really. It’s one thing if people were just making random jokes and they weren’t someone’s cup of tea, but joking about rape and murder is never okay. And it seems most people suggest to just “leave chat if it makes you feel uncomfortable” but… that’s incredibly insensitive? To say, “well if you can’t handle it then get out we’re not interested in making this a safe space for people”. Especially in regards to something incredibly sensitive like rape and murder. :v

I’m not saying that happened all the time in chat or anything, but by all accounts it has happened and that’s just… not okay. At all. You should not joke around about rape and murder. End of discussion.

Although, this also kinda leads me to a separate point that’s been on my mind for awhile. I really think there should be some sort of block feature on MC. There’s one on just about every website nowadays. Not everyone gets along. That’s just life. And some people just don’t get along to the point they’re incredibly uncomfortable even being around someone. This might be best left for another discussion, though, so I digress.

I’m currently at a game developer’s conference so I can’t fully write out my feelings (which is a good thing! Gives me more time to think it through.), but I’d like to express that I do not understand how guilds would solve the ‘cliquey-ness’ in any way whatsoever. Guilds, to me, are cliques. I have always disliked the feature since having been in one on Neopets. I can see benefits, but for me they do not outweigh the problems.

Additionally, to me, chat was a way to meet new people. I have not experienced that much on the forums.

As for the ‘feeling left out’ bit; there is information that staff has that is often not necessarily secret, but sometimes staff are unaware this information may be of interest to you. Some staff members do not communicate as much as others, as has been pointed out before, so when they get excited about a particular thing and they happen to be in chat, something perceived as ‘secret’ can be mentioned and people may feel like they were left out, while the staff member feels they shared something that was fine to be out in public. It wasn’t a secret, chat just happened to be the easy outlet for something that in their eyes was fairly trivial. Too trivial to dedicate an official ‘news’/facebook/twitter/tumblr post to it, too trivial to want to give the impression that we’re doing more than we are.

Because of that, I/we’ve been trying to post the smaller updates in the news thread, back-end updates (e.g. wearable positioning fixes, items that have been made available to more species, etc.) that one in a hundred may appreciate, but we can’t guarantee the update reaches everyone that wants to hear about it.

Edit: Oh, yeah, things that are mentioned off-site or ‘in staff presence’? Please don’t just assume it will be picked up :( if you are passionate about something, have an opinion you feel needs to be heard, my echoes are always open and I’m generally pretty easy to reach, and always willing to talk to you about things privately and see if I can help you in any way. Posting anon, or in a crowd, can go unnoticed or be too unclear to act upon. If there’s an issue, I will always try to stay away from judgement and would love to be a listening ear for anyone~ <3

That said, if you have suggestions for the site that you believe are essential, please keep in mind there are many like you with other ideas that feel the same way, and due to that the to do list currently has over thirty items on it. The fact that ‘someone in chat suggested something’ and it went up two days later does not mean that person was listened to and you weren’t, it most likely meant it had been on the to do list for months and it coincidentally went up shortly after (that, or the remark served as a reminder, given that the list is rather long). If you think your suggestion needs to be heard, then I fully agree with you that it should be, and my inbox is open to any such echoes :) that does not guarantee it will be added, but now that we have a little more structure in the back-end, it makes sure it gets discussed somewhere along the way.

Oops this became rather long anyway >> onwards to more meetings \\o

Just going to post that Kiwi has encapsulated my feelings perfectly. I find it much more difficult to post on the forums than in the chat. I was just a lurker before I started using the chat. All of my friends on the site have been made in the chat, and I find it really difficult to keep in touch with everyone using different messengers. I find the casual atmosphere a lot easier to relax in and I find posting in the forums pretty daunting, I really struggle writing super long posts that aren’t broken up into choppy sentences (just like this!). I wanted to greet someone in the welcome thread the other day, but found it too overwhelming to do so. On the other hand I’d probably have said hi right away in the chat! I don’t really know why. The forums don’t feel as informal to me I guess? I don’t know.

I’m sorry that people felt they couldn’t join the chat, but I’ve always had the same feeling about the forums. I mainly use the forums for trading threads and if I do post, it’s generally a stand alone thing. I don’t feel I’m interacting as much. Even now I’m just writing my individual thoughts really, rather than explicitly responding to anyone.

The issues with topics of conversation have been few and far between, as far as I can tell. However, those instances have made me go: “well, that’s in bad taste/going to upset someone”. It’s probably happened twice while I’ve been in chat. I think chat needed more ground rules in the first place and possibly a chat log viewable by admins. People could report with the timestamp when someone has been offensive.

I don’t know. I just wanted to share my thoughts, I’ll leave solutions to you guys. ;u;

I don’t have issues with the staff at all. You guys have always been helpful whether I’ve posted my issue in chat or in the forums. <3

I’d like to clarify something to everyone:

There have been many references to some kind of event in chat in which murder and/or rape appeared to be condoned. The conversation occurred between two non-moderators, and these are the lines in particular that the references are centered around:

> Ser Gregor was alright I guess.

Followed by

> it wasn’t his fault.

Ser Gregor is a character in Game of Thrones, and, in the story, Ser Gregor engages in rape and murder. I would like to stress that Mycena Cave and its moderators do not condone murder or rape. The conversation referenced above, resulting in no reports to a moderator and thus no moderator involvement, does not translate to “rape and murder is ok with the mods on Mycena Cave”.

In order to keep this conversation productive, I’d like to ask that we steer our focus away from the event that occurred in chat (unless you were actually there and have a specific thing to say about it). We encourage you to continue discussing constructively as you have been, but please remain vigilant of rumor and misinformation, especially of the sort which impunes the moral character of people I hold in very high regard.

I’m just going to jump in and start, um, rambling on a few things I saw that might be good I think. ^^; I don’t know how to properly slide a comment into this thread and it’s taken me hours to try an maybe potentially post something so ah, I hope just, some wordbarf is okay…

Chat being around for events seems really convenient for those comfortable using the chat space. It’s on site and you can talk really quick with other people without posting in the forums and potentially seeing that two or three more posts have sprung up by the time you make your post (because sometimes they move very fast, ah). Sometimes people just need a space for short, quick messages and all about things going on during an event, and chat seemed like an easy place to do that if someone didn’t wish to post in the forums about it, and for those that liked to use chat. For example, a quick exchange of “who wants my next word?” and “me!” during the summer discovery dig was probably easy to do there. I didn’t stop by chat during events, so I don’t know if it was helpful, but I think if we need to consider simply limiting chat as a function on the site, that may be a way to go about it. Hopefully, it would be easier to monitor during an event time frame. “Sections” or “rooms” could still apply here, because that sounds like a nice idea. Such as one where people go to ask staff quick questions (so they don’t get lost by general chit-chat) and a separate one for general event discussion and such. The staff question space should be a very safe space, I would hope, for people just wanting a tab pulled up to see what gets asked and all or to get things clarified. And of course, if it were possible, a frequently asked questions or just a sum up of all of the questions asked outside of the forums being put into the event’s discussion thread could help bridge any gaps between what information gets dolled out in chat and what doesn’t. I don’t know how taxing this would be though, perhaps even just “event moderator” positions could be a thing if more help is needed during these times, but that could be a thing…

Chat being put back up full time sounds like a hard matter to handle. I don’t have good suggestions on it, I’m sorry. It seems mainly (imo I guess ah) there’s an important thing to note that on either of the more extreme sides of the issue, some people will not want to or like using the forums, but prefer chat and would be very disappointed/uncomfortable with its removal, while others will feel the other way around about it and potentially feel wary/uncomfortable of it staying. I like the separate rooms and such idea though- for those that wish to enter chat, being able to chose one of a couple different spaces might be nice. Once again, a special space just for questions to the staff would probably be helpful here too, along with… I don’t know how many other rooms or what kinds, of course there couldn’t be very many in order to make moderation possible, but… Yeah.

Personally, I’ve always been terrified of chat. Things like that just generally make me really anxious. Even if I considered just going in there to have the tab pulled up so I could check in every now and then on what people are talking about worried me/made me nervous about trying to just silently hang around. Nothing bad every happened while I was in chat the very few times that I think I’ve tentatively stepped in, it just makes me nervous for reasons is all. Ahh… Just, like, maybe this isn’t a needed ramble addition, I’m sorry. Hmm.

Now, switching over to forums. I am… Also terrified posting on forums, tbh. I’m nervous about everything I type and put up and I’ve sat on the outside of threads I wanted to post in but couldn’t bring myself to do for months. Still sitting on the outside of them, actually. However, what I personally would love to see most is an expansion on the forums. User hangouts would be a great thing to add in, I think, regardless of what ends up happening to chat too by the way. People can chose who they want in their spaces and talk about what they want to talk about. It could be filtered out of recent posts for anyone that doesn’t want those things popping up there, so hopefully it should be okay for people to post as much as they’d like to there. Short replies and such should be okay, and hopefully no one should have to be in a free chatting space with anyone that makes them uncomfortable.

Since I feel this is designed as a forum based site, I would think it makes more sense to put more focus on the forums than a chatting feature. Not that a chatting feature should or should not be on the site, since some people still like or prefer it a lot and there is fair argument as to why it should be put back up. And not that it seemed more the focus now/beforehand either. Just… Mrrr. I don’t know how to word what I was trying to say anymore… But uhm, speaking of my personal opinion on the matter, I am not the most keen on chat (though I don’t care what happens to it either way as long as its re-addition or more permanent removal is dealt with as well as is possible for everyone?) and would rather see the forums flourishing a little more. Most of all, I would love to see admins (especially <3?) and other staff members, if you guys have the time and feel comfortable (I know some are lurkers and would rather stay that way and that’s fine aw), posting more in the forums. I think initially I saw Myla and glitch about the forums pretty often, and I really liked that a lot. Lately, I don’t feel I’ve seen a whole lot of you guys around. Which that’s okay of course if you guys are busy or just don’t feel up to it and all. But, maybe at some point we could start seeing that again. Hmmm….

I’m just rambling now so I’ll be quiet… ^^; Sorry if that’s any sort of abrupt ending to a post. I’m hoping I didn’t word anything too weird or confusing or anything, ah. I think I got side tracked only half of this really relates to chat specifically eep… ;_; -holds breath, posts, and then scurries away-

“In the future, I won’t be following links to offsite comments because I think they do more harm than good. ”

First of all, good for you.  All sites have haters.  It’s good to not let it drag you down. 

My general view is chat is a great feature to have.  When I stumble in right before an event I can get my bearings by pestering chat for a while.  I really don’t see me using forums for this.  Also, with the kinds of events we have (where you give items to people and the giving gives the person receiving a gift time off their wait), instant communication seems integral. 

For the first issue, people being offended, you have three options I think.

1.  Punish people into the behavior you want them to exhibit.
2.  Tell the sensitive people to thicken their skin (not going to happen, I know, but you /could/)
3.  Separate people in chat

2 won’t happen as this place is big on sensitivity so for this place to have chat again, 1 or 3 will happen.  Or both.

As for the second problem, some perception of closeness with staff…

It’s not true at all.  Or at least not for me.  Glitch has probably been more personal with me in a recent echo we had than in chat.  As for people not feeling the chat is appropriate enough to visit, see 1 and 3 above.

Chat feature is something useful during events and an aspect MC has over any competition.  It’d be nice to see it return.

I’ve been on both sides of this battle just not on the chat here as our community seems to be a bit more level headed. People aren’t always going to understand what you are trying to communicate and may or may not find your statements/stance offensive.

After having used the chat I will agree that it does make the events easier and items easier to obtain. And yes there does seem to be a bit more first hand infor in chat as some staff will post pics or links to things before they are made public or are complete. Not enough information is given to make this an upper hand scenario over players that do not use chat.

At this junction I cannot use chat at all due to a lack of java and a crappy internet connection.

Still reading the newest posts, but I love Blemy’s staff FAQ idea!

Having thought a little on it, perhaps the monthly news discussions could have a section/second post with the faq’s for that month? So questions that get asked that seem relevant for multiple people could go there, and if a question is asked in elsewhere that may be relevant we could edit them in?

Little note: If you think this is too long (I mean, come on, there are longer ones xD), feel free to read just the bold text. ^^

I have to agree with Skye completely. I was active in the chat. I truly enjoyed chatting with the other members there. Sure it seemed empty sometimes, but once it gets going it can get really fun in there. Like Skye, I am introverted in RL. The last time I went out was on a Sunday. I have not owned a phone in 2-3 years. Home is the place where I can be in my pajamas all day and not brush my teeth or hair. People in general is a subject best left alone. The live chat was my only workaround, a delusion I shaped to make myself believe I wasn’t really just a shy girl who was always out of place.

And how did all this turn into “rape and murder is condoned by the staff”? Yes, I was there when the conversation took place and, as glitch has confirmed, no mod was contacted when the conversation took place so it really isn’t fair to say that the staff allow rape and/or murder. To me, that seems very disrespectful to them. :<

It might be the introversion part of me that brushes it off but I could not bring it upon myself to be overly bothered by the conversation that took place in the live chat. Sure, I was shocked and I never expected someone to love Joffrey and overlook Ser Gregor’s misdoings but, after some research, I found out that more than a few people do. I follow the belief, and always have, that everyone has their own opinions - who am I to question them? Yes, I might be self-centered like that, but that’s me. There’s you and everyone else out there, too.

In conclusion, I really liked the live chat (which is technically why I put up an unofficial IRC chat) and I would love to see it return in the future - I honestly sometimes still click Community and expect to see Live Chat among the options. I also hope that no one pins the blame on the mods because, in my opinion, it really was not their fault. ^^

Posting from my phonw so I apologize for any weird typos, but I just wanted to mention something in regards to people uncomfortable posting on forums for ‘everyone to see.’ I feel another issue with chat was that there was no way to access anything said there unless you were in chat at the time. I don’t believe even admins could view chat history which is a huge problem, in my opinion. No matter how well behaved the majority of the community might be, you can’t expect everything to run smoothly at all times and it’s important to be able to see what happened in cases where someone may acted inappropriately. I think that is a pretty obvious drawback, considering the rumors and confusion over what happened - only users who were actually there know, and everybody else only has secondhand info.

heh…i forgot we had a chat but wow everything i’ve read here ;/ first of all shame on haters causing issues and making our mods feel bad!

i agree about the forums maybe needing more fleshing out but in my case i would probably use chat…if i remembered it was there ^.^ then again i only used the trading post during the event due to having an overabundance of pearly depths but yer..that’s all i needed to say ^.^ bai

*peeks in here* Hi guys.~ In the end of this, whether MC brings chat back or not, I hope that the users who didn’t use chat won’t form negative opinions of those who did, and vice-versa. I just feel so terrible seeing the site kinda divided like this. :c

I am gonna say that I hope that some version of chat will return in the future. And if it doesn’t, I’m happy that an AIM chat popped up, because without it, I would likely become extremely withdrawn again, like I was when I first joined Digis.

Okay, that’s all. I seriously adore so many of you, so so much. And I hope we can come to a solution that is mutually beneficial to both parties! Whether you frequented chat, or not. I want everyone to be feeling happy and comfortable regardless of where they like to kick it. <3

just going to put my two cents in…

but as someone who doesn’t frequent the forums a lot on any site i go to due to preference and being generally uncomfortable with them, I really hope that another chat system will be put in place :c
having different rooms might be a solution, but making it clear that the staff does not give out information like people that don’t go in the chat think they do might be a solution too?

i haven’t been here that long but i never saw anything like that when i was in the chat and that’s where i spent most of my time from the start…