for the shipping thing, i know you can purchase a shipping label online and then print it. theoretically—i’m not entirely sure, but theoretically—you should be able to buy the label and e-mail it to the person you’re purchasing from, and they can then print it out and use it.

and on capitalization and such, i feel like lack of capitalization is more a dialect thing than a grammar thing. i know i’ve developed a capitalization-less style of typing that has nothing to do with proper usage of grammar. i simply prefer the look of un-capitalized text, as capitalized text is actually harder for me to process? which i understand is because of my neurotype so i don’t expect anyone else to adopt it, but. one would think if it’s obvious you care about grammar/spelling, but have a particular typing quirk that doesn’t make it more difficult for people to understand you, it wouldn’t be an issue.

Thanks Juney :3. In that case, I suggest that the rule be changed to something more like “All work must be done by you, without automation or assistance from any program or device.” Like that, but written by someone who knows how to words :(
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Sorry if this is worded weirdly… Here you say no one can give you their custom credit. What about this?

User A submits User B’s custom design, paying for it with User A’s custom credit and having it sent to User A’s account.
User A then trades the custom pet to User B in exchange for nuggets or gems or something.

Would this be acceptable, or break some rule?
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I agree that users signing up should be required to click an “I am 13 years old or older” checkbox. But what about current users that are under 13?
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I think that USPS, FedEx and UPS all have ways to buy a shipping label online, though I’m not sure. There’s also agreeing upon a shipment method and only being reimbursed upon providing a receipt for the shipment.
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Another comment on Section 6: You say that the rules can result in punishment anywhere you disclose your identity. Does that mean “I am Jingles from Mycena Cave and I think Pastafarians are dumb people.” Or can I get in trouble on Mycena Cave for saying to a person who happens to know me both in real life and on Mycena “Pastafarians are dumb people.”?

Regarding COPPA and such, I absolutely despise the idea that I couldn’t share information about myself or my identity online. When I do that sort of thing, it’s my choice and I accept the consequences. So if requiring that users be thirteen or older can alleviate this, I’m all for it.

I feel like it’d be easy for users signing up after the rule change, but for users who are already registered… perhaps after the rules are adjusted, before you’re allowed to sign in, you must confirm your birthdate or age or something before continuing to use the site. That way no one is left out of the update.

Jingles: the only things that would have any “off-site reach” are the things that are in the **the following are unacceptable under ANY circumstances** section. For disclosing your identity, think of it this way: if a moderator and/or random internet person stumbles across your blog on which you say things that fall under those categories, and it is clear that the blog belongs to the same person as account #48 here on Mycena Cave, then it’s something that would be problematic (kind of like it’s problematic when you cause public scenes while wearing your work uniform). There is of course also a question of degree — saying “pastafarians are dumb” probably won’t cause a lot of ruckus; trying to get someone to hurt themselves would.

Do you remember when Digis Confessions got really bad? This is in part to address the notion that if one of our members chooses to bully another of our members, the fact that it happens on a different domain doesn’t automatically make us powerless to do anything about it.

—-

As for your custom credit question… that goes against the spirit of the rule as it currently is, but I don’t really see a way of preventing that technically. Or even being able to prove that oh the user just changed their mind and decided they didn’t want it anymore.

**Possible solution:** maybe we could require that customs be at least some age before they can be traded. Maybe a month? That’d be short enough that people who actually want their customs would probably never notice, but long enough that it’d throw a serious wrench into the plans of anyone trying to do that. What does everyone think of that?

I don’t like that. If I purchase a custom, I’d like to be able to do with it as I please. I do believe we’ve had this conversation before though, so I’ll keep it brief.

What if only customs bought with custom credit had the limitation added on to them. That way customs purchased outright upon acceptance (especially in the case of gift customs) would be exempt from the rule.

That sort of thing makes me nervous. I feel like people would take it as an example that other rules aren’t enforced either. It’s a tricky situation.

I know I’m personally very against “soul-binding” of items or pets on accounts, so that may leave my opinion a bit biased. If it doesn’t bother most people, I definitely wouldn’t complain too loud if temp-locking pets is chosen as the best solution.

The reason custom credit isn’t transferable is for tax reasons, right? But the way Jingled explained is a safe way around that? It doesn’t leave the site liable for any tax requirements? It may not be in spirit of the rule, but it doesn’t have any negatives on the site? I just want to be sure. I actually don’t have any issues with people “transferring” credit in that method. I feel like the people who accumulate credit are the ones going after customs, and those who want nuggets or gems would ask for that in exchange for whatever they’re selling. I may be wrong, of course.

Alright, that makes sense. And no, I don’t remember that D: Did people in Digis confessions bash people on Mycena somehow?
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On a site of this size, rules that are reasonable but not enforceable would probably work. If it really becomes an issue, they can always be updated.

Frankly I can’t see many current Mycenians doing it even if you just put “please don’t use your custom credit to buy customs for other people, it’d make glitch sad :(.”

EDIT: Wait, if it’s for tax reasons… why would it become more of an issue to have custom credit transferable than gems? Both are purchased for cash, and used to purchase specific types of digital art.

If the issue is “customs may also be purchased for cash” couldn’t you just make it so people have to purchase custom credit if they want a custom, just like they need to purchase gems if they want an OotS pet? Or even sell customs for gems, flat?

Well, my idea for shipping & handling when it comes to these mini-pet sculptures would be to send them & then provide the receipt to the user. As much as I’d like to offer them to fellow members, I don’t have extra income & would rather spend my own money on things my household needs. My goal isn’t to make money off of it, I’d just like to be reimbursed the USD spent to send the buyer the product they asked for. I don’t think it would cost the buyer much, it would weigh <15g.

I’ve bought a lot of “irl art items” off of people through sites such as Aywas. Nothing that has been sent to me has ever costed over five dollars (the highest I remember is a little over three, but I was ordering a few things). Posted below is to give you an idea of what I’m talking about (mind you, the photos aren’t HQ). Length wise, it’s about the size of two pennies. Height wise, it’s a little over the size of a penny. These aren’t big sculptures & are ideal for things like necklace pendants, ornaments & key chains. I wanted to make them customized for users on here of their irl pets & customs/characters that are on MC. I don’t think they’d be easily re-sold. Below is Juney’s character, Kadyn. He weighs <12g.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-zhCYeuhyVTcDAxQnBmZjQ3cFU&usp=sharing

After having thought about the “using your custom credit to get a custom to someone else’s design and then trade it over” thing, is it really something that needs to be against the rules? I’d actually be open to it being okay. The only potential issue I can see is one person using it in order to get multiple slots in the custom queue at the same time (i.e. buy custom credit for a bunch of people and have then submit your designs for you). But that seems like a minor issue in comparison.

Regarding paying for shipping, either one of showing shipping receipts to the buyer and/or having the buyer pay for the shipping directly seems like it would resolve any issues. Those are pretty nifty pendans, Kris :)

In reference to Section 1 and the sharing of accounts.
    At present I have a friend back home that logs into my account and plays. He just isn’t involved enough to get his own account but seems to enjoy himself playing on mine. So yes, in a sense we share an account. As he does not have an account of his own I don’t see this as an issue.
    With other game sites, my family members either have their own accounts OR in the case of my son, he plays on my account with supervision. None of them have an interest in this one so it works out. If they were active here, I can see how that would create confusion as we would all be under the same IP but different accounts. I’m not even sure how you would monitor that other than the transfer of items/nuggets/gems between accounts. I guess that would be the stipulation to control multiple account abuse. Limit the number or value of items going between accounts.

hmm, i’m not sure how i feel about the limiting the transfer thing.

my partner, whom i live with, introduced me to this site. so we both play on the same IP address, obviously. in other pet sites we play we frequently share our pool currency; if there’s something they want but don’t have enough money for, i’ll send them a bunch, and vice versa. we like to share and do nice things for each other and a restriction on the value or amount one can share would be quite frustrating. i understand the reason for it but i’m worried about how it would actually play out.

Weighing in on the custom credit issue here:
I think it would be rather nice to be able to buy and then trade someone else their custom, as long as it did not create any liabilities for the site. However, if it does become against the rules I would heavily support the implementation of a time period lock after buying a custom. People really should not want to trade off their custom only a month after purchasing it, if it was indeed made for themself.

As an added question, if it became against the rules to buy and then trade a custom, would it also be against the rules to buy a custom for someone as a gift with the custom being delivered straight to them? I believe that’s happened on here a few times already, and I find it the cutest thing ever. I understand that could cause problems because someone could “gift” a custom to someone else while receiving a “gift” of gems or nuggets in return… Hm.

I happen to agree with Ishy and Nine- Do not create rules you do not plan to enforce. It sets a bad precedence for future issues. It makes it seem like you don’t care about the rest of the rules you may implement. Furthermore, if you then decide to enforce that rule, you end up in a PR nightmare of ‘you didn’t enforce it before!!’ ‘so-and-so did the same thing and didn’t get in trouble!!’
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It’s better to avoid that completely.

On the Custom Credit..Account Soul-Binding….custom mess:
I really thought we had cleared this up when we had the discussion with the Recreations? And I thought the decision was that you can do what you want with it given that you’ve paid for it. There’s no logical way to properly enforce it. It would also affect pets that were already purchased anyway, since there are some customs already in the queue, and ones that have been uploaded recently.

Like Nyfeaena said- if the lock is there but you can still ‘Gift’ there will be people who will start doing that instead. It’s a lot easier to monitor transactions when they aren’t being done under the table. And if/when drama comes up because of that, then it will be easier to deal with.

Secondly, just..why?? There’s no reason for it. It’d be the same as selling one of the Gen2/Babies on the site. ((one of a kind color owned by a single person, who ideally values it more for the fact that it is for them and their character than the fact it is a one of a kind.)) It’s too messy trying to enforce something like a lock, it’s too negative for PR (personally) with the lock because if I buy something. I want it to be mine. Especially if it is based off of my character.

Finally- I have Question; Will Custom Credit ever be available for Gems? Or be replaced with an option to order with Gems?
The Tax thing is the reason why the Custom Credit is non transferable but..I’m not sure I understand why that doesn’t affect Gem purchases. =\

I’ve read through but.. I still don’t quite get it?? Is it to try and limit Customs as a Special Commodity (and thus solely to IRL) as opposed to obtainable without paying IRL? The fact that there are Raffles that offer customs though seem to make this not seem like the correct answer though. So… I’m just confused.

with regards to the talk about COPPA, a 13+ age restriction seems like the best and easiest way to go about it. I’m still not going to willingly expose underage teens to explicit material if I can help it, but it would put me at ease knowing that it’s less likely for there to be super young kids around here. I would also hate for something to happen to the site legal-wise, as unlikely as that would be, and I think that would be a good precaution to take.

like baekhesten said, about the capitalization thing…it really is more like a dialect thing than a grammar thing. it actually super weirds me out that most people here type with proper capitalization, I’m like, why so proper? haha. but it is a personal preference. also I’m the same way with processing info(baekhesten- if I may ask, are you on the autism spectrum by any chance?) in that the sentences having uniform capitalization are much easier to read for me, which is also why I adopted typing like that. a certain mental energy goes into it I think? I dunno. it’s a little hard to explain processing stuff u_u

it isn’t of personal interest to me but I’m also puzzled as to why customs should be soul-bound or anything like that. purchasing one from another user is probably the only way some people would be able to get their hands on one outside of a raffle, and people already trade their site pets for custom credit…which is only used for customs, so it’s about the same thing legally, isn’t it?

**Customs:** It seems to me that the most straightforward way forward on this is to simply to say buying a custom and then trading it away instantly is fine. Can anyone see a good reason *not* to do this?

**Trading MC stuff for IRL stuff:** I did some research, and it turns out this is stickier than I thought. Basically, what Juney said was right and what I said was wrong. Looking at other sites and how they handle the situation, they seem to fall into two broad categories:

1. no trading MC things for ~~non-MC things~~ IRL things (sorry typo)
2. MC things can be traded for IRL “art” (e.g. digital or physical drawings, sculptures, hand-made jewelry etc) but no other IRL things

What do you guys think?

**Custom Credit:** not really a rules question, but we have no plans to make custom credit (or customs) available for gem / nugget purchase. It may feature as the occasional raffle prize, but will not be a regular feature. It’s not a matter of making them a status thing, but of keeping responsibilities realistic. Customs are currently the only thing that guarantees income for Mycena Cave. They also require a significant amount of time and effort to create, and so putting them in a position where they are readily available for free places a significant risk on our end.

Customs: I see no reason not to allow immediate trading of customs.

Trading: My suggestion would be to allow it for now (option 2, I mean), and if it somehow gets to be a hassle (like people sell handmade ‘art’ with seriously valuable materials or something), you can put a stop to it. I know that’s a little more work, but I really appreciate being able to trade for neat little things like chainmail or clay trinkets.

Custom Credit: I totally understand why they aren’t sold for gems, but my question was why isn’t custom credit tradable? If it’s a tax thing you’re worried about, couldn’t you make it so all customs are purchased using Custom Credit, and Custom Credit is purchased using USD?

I can’t see that affecting the site’s income, or making custom credit any different than gems for tax purposes. Also you could give it a cute name like Sorceress Tokens

> couldn’t you make it so all customs are purchased using Custom Credit, and Custom Credit is purchased using USD

Legally speaking this sounds like it would be reasonable, but honestly is not something we’re looking at just at the moment. Custom credit is not meant to be another site currency. It’s a way for glitch not to have to get all ninja-y with the database when someone insists on buying someone else “half a custom” >>

glitch; Just to clarify, 1. Insinuates more than just trading for rl items, e.g. ‘no trading mc things for non-mc things’ as you have stated it currently also includes trading for things from other games, USD currency or not. Could you confirm that, given the domain you were speaking of in both 1.&2., they referenced USD non-MC things only?

And then, the clarification for the actual trading for items and currency from other sites, these naturally follow from the current rule set, e.g. you may not trade for items and currency on other sites that could readily be sold for USD? But currency/items that cannot be sold for USD, but were bought with USD are still fine?

@Juney err… typo >>. Edited to clarify

And yes, I do believe that is the standard cross-site trading agreement — you can sell for things that can be bought with usd but not for things that can be sold with usd… right? (sorry it’s late and i’m tired… not at my most lucid). But that seems right… just like other sites would allow their members trading things for MC gems.

glitch Yes, that is the most common cross-site trading policy so far as I know, in sites that allow cross site trading at all. Most (? at least Aywas, I know) also disallow trading for currency on sites that allow trading currency for cash. Here is a list of sites that Aywas bans trading with for that reason - it is helpful to have a list :3

Digis was kind of the exception - it was the only one I’ve heard of that allowed cross-site trading, but not for currencies purchasable via USD.